Nokia Surge 6790

Outside of all complaints, I could probably accept this phone if it used a medianet plan instead of a PDA plan like a Fuze, iPhone, or Blackberry. Its far to expensive for a phone like this.

I messed with one a few weeks back in an AT&T store, it didn't seem as bad as I thought. But still not something for me.

the e71 is also much more of a smartphone than the surge is.

The surge looks like it was targeted at teen messengers more than someone who needed full smartphone functionality.

These smartphones have "free" gps because they are higher end feature phones.

Number 1: You will need the DATA PLAN to use GPS on the go, the whole nation is not a wifi hotspot.
Number 2: If you want just a texting phone, then GET A TEXTING PHONE. If you want a phone with a full browser, get a smartphone.
Number 3: How many hotspots can you find that are free?
A: Your house.
B: Your uncles house.
C: Your friends house.
D: ETC.
Most hotspots nowadays you have to pay with a credit card to use it.

Conclusion: Those who want a text phone, GET A TEXT PHONE, those who need a full web browser, GET A SMARTPHONE, Otherwise don't argue about wifi....BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH...

Hey Einstein -

Number 1: you don't need a data plan for standalone GPS like in the E71 & N95, you connect directly to the satellites, not the cell network. For A-GPS, you do need a data plan.

Number 2: Many people spend a lot of time at A, B, C, D and their office where wifi is available. If not, I can generally find free wifi without much problem.

Oh, so standalone, which is on phones that are not subsidized, connects directly to satellites using.......what exactly? a non-data connection???

Also, I did state that none of the phones that the CARRIERS have get standalone gps....

The E71 carried by AT&T is such a phone. Of course, a data connection is used, but it is handset-to-sat, not handset-to-celltower, so no need to buy a data plan. Just like you don't need a data plan to use wifi.

I own the E71x, which is the AT&T version, and I can confirm that this phone does not have any standalone GPS capabilities.....the E71 might, but that specific phone is not carried by AT&T.

I'm just not understanding how a phone can connect to a satellite in space and communicate without using some sort of internet connection.

Radio signals are received from the satellites. You don't need to connect to the cell tower unless the phone needs A-GPS (E71x is standalone). E71x has the same hardware as E71, but Feature Pack 3 S60 (not 2) and AT&T mods. Nokia Maps doesn't work, but Google Maps should.

http://www.mobiletechreview.com/phones/Nokia-E71x.htm »

So you're saying that the average consumer can contact a satellite in space from their cell phone without paying one cent for it???? Somehow I don't buy that...

Google Maps is a application that uses triangulation to get a general fix (usually within 2 miles of your location, if I remember correctly), but it doesn't contact satellites at all.
http://www.google.com/mobile/products/maps.html# »

Now I reread a statement I made earlier where I said "the E71x does not have any standalone GPS capabilities", and I now realize I used the wrong word. It has the capabilities, but I do not know of any program that works with it, especially that accesses the GPS for free.

The GPS isn't really the problem though. It's the maps. For instance, I can get GPS location on my Googlemaps without paying for navigation, but I can't get the maps without data. What this guy was talking about would require downloading the maps into your phone. Gigs worth of maps. Satalites give you your location, they don't give you the maps relating to that location.

KoldPhusion said:
So you're saying that the average consumer can contact a satellite in space from their cell phone without paying one cent for it????

Yes, absolutely. That's how any phone with GPS (including A-GPS) works.

Note that GPS is a one-way radio service. The satellites broadcast special timing signals, which any GPS-enabled device can receive. No communication happens in the direction of GPS device to satellite.

The US gov't operates the GPS satellites. Because it is strictly broadcast, there is no cost difference to the US gov't if no one uses it or a billion people use it at once. Also, there is no capability to identify individual users, and therefore no way to charge for it. It's simply...
(continues)

Thank you very much for a concise description on how gps works, as I did not know anything about that. I suppose training sometimes blinds us lol.

Googlemaps require a data plan. The data plan is there to upload maps. Just having GPS capablilities doesn't mean you have a road map of the intire United States prestored in that little bit of phone memory. Sure, it could possibly tell you your coordinates, but it wouldn't be able to give you turn by turn directions. Even GPS unites require you loading a map of the region/regions you plan to be visiting.

Garmin TX Mobile for example would provide the maps without having to utilize the Data Plan. There are ways to load an application on the device or an SD storage card to utilize the standalone GPS service free. You would just want to disable A-GPS, and realize that without A-GPS, you're accuracy has a 50 meter margin of error.

Do you know of an application for Symbian that allows you to load maps and relate to GPS co-ordinates? I mean a Garmin after all is an expensive unite who's sole purpose is GPS Naviation. You're phone on the other hand uses a comperable processor to do much more. Also, I'm pretty sure the maps aren't free.

http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/discussions/boar ... »

http://maps.ovi.com/services/integrated?lid=mapsbody ... »

Looks like these guys will allow you to download maps for your device. I'm not sure how well it works, but it looks like I was wrong. In the above posted thread(linked) it suggests for turn by turn there is a license fee. I don't own a Nokia so I can't test this out. If anyone does, let us know. I'd be curoius to see how it works out.

KoldPhusion said:

I'm just not understanding how a phone can connect to a satellite in space and communicate without using some sort of internet connection.

the same way any GPS unit from Garmin or Magellan, etc do in your car. or the same way XM radio does. those devices do not have internet connections and recieve satellite data.

you should know what you are talking about before starting an argument.

See, this is where "arguments" start. When someone is rude for no reason whatsoever.

The problem here is that the satalite only relays your coordinates. Unless you know what to do with two degrees you're sh*t out of luck. You should probably know what you are talking about before you start an argument.

Hey bro, don't call me Einstein, I am just expressing my opinion, no need to be rude. OK. If you want to be rude, go somewhere else. Thanks.

And I am talking about phones that are on AT&T network, the "locked" phones, not unlocked overseas phones that cost $500+, smartphones are more for people who are on the go, more like business people. What is the point of having a smartphone if you are not going to utilize it? Textfreaks can have smartphones too, and get rid of the data plan, but the thing is, when you guys do this, it hits the person who you bought the phone from. So yeah, calm down.

By the way, most non-smartphones, when you have a unlimited text plan, the data only costs $10 per line. It is $30 for smartphones. No wifi but stil...
(continues)

Sorry that was just impulse, but with all that Number 1, Number 2, A, B, C stuff, you seem to be setting yourself up as a bit of an expert.

For Standalone GPS on AT&T you have Nokia E71 and LG Xenon, which come locked. (there may be others)

I agree that the $10 is a good deal, but I don't understand how they can $30 just because there is a keyboard.

No sir, dude listen, or not listen, i mean read lol, one of the biggest reasons that the pda/smartphones have a data plan priced at $30 a month is because it gets a full web browser, which uses more data, and it gets e-mail attachments. You can also have like 10 different e-mail accounts, and get push data so you are notified when you have new e-mails. Non-smartphones don't have a full web browser, and you can only be signed in to one e-mail account at a time with the mobile e-mail application plus there is no notifications when you get new e-mails unless you go in and set it up through the pc if your e-mail provider offers that option.

Also, the Xenon gives a data plan of $10/month, plus $10 for GPS, for smartphones, to get Voice GPS it...
(continues)

Once again:

E71x = AT&T
E71 = sold by Nokia direct

Can you please clarify which phone you are talking about?

Mostly because of the sheer amount of data a smartphone uses. Here's a couple of example:

Non-Smartphone:
Basic Pull Email
GPS
WAP/Semi-HTML browser (no flash usually)

So not much you can do data wise for non-smartphones

Smartphones:
Full email with multiple accounts and attachments
A-GPS
Full HTML browser
Streaming (like Pandora/Slacker Radio)
Software
RSS applications
Socialapps like Facebook/Myspace/Twitter
Application downloads and use
OTA Sync

Smartphones use A LOT more data and offer more options then regular phones, hence why they charge more.

I've heard that argument, mostly from retail salespeople. Look at the Nokia E71 vs. the Nokia 6650. Same OS, same apps, same browser, etc. Yet I would have a $30 plan for 1 and $10 for the other, just because there's a keyboard.

If I pay for unlimited data, I should get it no matter what device I use.

Most people who use the internet on their phones, especially the HEAVY users (1GB+/month) tend to use PDA/Smartphone devices, and not standard phones. If their were one universal price for unlimited internet, it wouldn't be $30, but it sure would NOT be $10. Where do you think the companies get that extra cash to slightly subsidize the internet cost on standard phones?

That's true, and it dates back when the Samsung BlackJack came out (it used Windows Mobile "Smartphone" edition, technically not PDA software) but it was still considered a PDA due to it's keyboard.

Heavy users tend to use more data if they have a keyboard, since it will be TONS easier then using regular keypad.

It's more of a judgement thing on AT&T end, which I agree it's kinda stupid instead of following the guideline they layed out.

Very recently AT&T has made most of their hotspots free for laptop connect customers, Iphone customers and customers with a dataplan on a wifi capable device. This includes most starbucks, barnes and noble, and any other AT&T provided hotspots. There are benefits to WIFI but yes I agree if you want a full browser or wifi, get a phone intended for that.

Right... if you have the data plan, you have free wifi..

I believe the OP was talking about having wifi without the data plan.

I see, seems like most of the customers I encounter would like to use wifi without a data package. Unfortunately I get to be the one to tell them that AT&T doesn't offer anything that is completely free, one way or another you are going to pay for it.

Nothing is ever totally free. If it is free to you, it means someone else is paying for it (advertisers, taxes on others, etc)

People hate advertisers because they find the intrusion into their lives to be frustrating.

People hate being taxed, but don't mind taxing others so they don't have to pay out of pocket.

And yet they continue to wonder why our economy is in the state it's in...

First of all I hear how every body feels about the phone but what if you can get it for only 20 http://tr.im/veBd